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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:21 pm 
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So I've heard and read alot of people moaning and also praising karma players alot of this is done over What's app so Ben never sees it.

I've moved it over to the forums and I would love to hear all of your input.

Look at the pros and cons.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Ok I'll go first.

I love the karma idea. I think it's great to be able to create your own player. I have some concerns that id love ben to look into.

1. The karma creations should NOT have all 10 speed 10 Agg and 10 vision. This is massive overkill. One ten would be enough. These players will flood the game and minimise the value of scouting etc etc.

2. They should be more personal. So take me for instance. I'd have high Agg slow speed and mid vision. I'd also have height. I don't need all 10s.

3. Make the more expensive. 750-1000 karma. Maybe even have levels. 350 gets you a decent player. 500 gets you a good one. 1000 karma gets you a top of the range. Just an idea.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Not a fan of karma players takes away the scouting element of the game would rather scouting was improved than add karma players I’ve added karma players in positions of need it shouldn’t be that easy I would prefer to scout hidden talents than just create a talent.
Karma should be used to decrease injury and for eos save a player from retiring or dropping stats.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:36 pm 
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I'm in favour of getting rid of Karma youth players (or make them very expensive) and use Karma mainly to reduce injury timescale which was always too long and regain confidence etc...


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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:41 pm 
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I will add my view-

Only thing that suprises me is that people seem suprised what’s happening but it was clearly publicised on the 120 page before entries, it was a big reason for picking the team I did so surely others would have thought that through? I’m all for feedback for the next game but that was the set up for 120 and we all knew what we were getting into.

I do however think Muscles option 3 would be a good concept for the future games. Can’t really do much for 120 as some haven’t spent their points and wouldn’t be fair for those managers to be penalised.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:59 pm 
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I feel it is overkill to have 3x10 untrainable stats. That being said, they do lack in other stats which can limit such players. For example, some karma players are rated 10 10 9 5 in their best position - which clearly limits their growth opportunities.

An option could be to request a particular type of player to suit your request. e.g. strong and tall CB

An important consideration was the impact on scouting; which in all honestly needs a massive revamp as it is. On that point, and aplogies for going off topic, a lot of excitement is lost after turn 2 when the scouted finds vanish. How about for future games quality scouted finds are drip fed over season 1 rather than all being available straight away!

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:06 am 
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Thanks Fadi for starting the thread and thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Would like to hear opinions from more managers on Karma Youth Players and the high starting amounts of Karma in 120. But please keep it on topic, if anyone wants to start a separate thread about how scouting could be improved please do so.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:55 am 
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Don't particularly like the karma players, prefer the challenge of unearthing players through scouting. Seeing Z Zidane, A Iniesta etc in 120 makes it silly imo. And they all have ridiculous amounts of 10s and SAs, they all have the potential to become the games best players, and all it cost was a few hundred karma points to make them.
Karma is great for reducing injuries, I think that's what it should prominently used for.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Not a fan of Karma creating player, I’ve only used it because it’s there and thought of a couple of ideas to use it to benefit my side. All above board I might add. But wouldn’t miss it if it was gone.

I actually feel sorry for Ben in regards to awarding the 10 Untrainables. He’s obviously done this to make it even for everyone who makes a Karma player and also so no one moans. Personally think it’s the right thing to do. There is nothing worse than 2 managers having created a Karma player each then complain the other mangers player is better than his. Imagine the emails Ben would have to deal with for this reason. So the same Untrainables for every player I feel was the only way. Also I would imagine every manager who add themselves or there children to the game wants there kid to be amazing, so again the high untrainables keeps them happy. So personally I don’t see any fault in what Ben has done as regards to the high untrainable stats people are moaning about.

As regards to making legends players, well I thought of this idea in 119 the whatsapp lads would remember but the reason I came up with this was for a couple of reasons. 1st reason was because some managers refuse to swap some legends they may possess (which is nothing wrong with I might add) so it gave me a chance to manage the legends I always wanted to manage as well. So it kept me happy in the game. 2nd reason was some managers appear to get a stiffy over some legends player names in their side, so by me making those legends and then adding single or double SA & POT it boosted my chance of getting deals by using the legend I created dealing with the manager who loves him. A great idea in my opinion.

So I don’t see anything wrong with adding whomever you want, but be prepared see things you may not like (like 2 x Messi’s or 3 x Ronaldo’s) but still with in the rules of the game. That’s karma creating player for you.

If people moan about managers creating ex-footballers and want that stopped then I don’t think that’s fair, as some managers like to create there kids where as some others think thats quite sad. So to me it would be either abolish the whole Karma creating player or leave it with anyone allowed to create who they want. I can’t see it being fair any other way personally.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Mac-Heeren wrote:
Don't particularly like the karma players, prefer the challenge of unearthing players through scouting. Seeing Z Zidane, A Iniesta etc in 120 makes it silly imo. And they all have ridiculous amounts of 10s and SAs, they all have the potential to become the games best players, and all it cost was a few hundred karma points to make them.
Karma is great for reducing injuries, I think that's what it should prominently used for.


My only comeback to this is how else do you expect smaller sides with lots of Karma compete with big sides with no Karma? Yes they have UE points but often enough this is used to make poor players average or average players as good as some decent sides players but still not as good as the best players in the game. So karma is an added bonus and incentive for managers to want to manages smaller sides. Let’s face it most managers want big sides in EFG nowadays unless groups want to manage in the same division that is.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I personally think karma points is pointless, when do you ever get a player that’s 10 speed 10 agg and 10 vision? That happens at the start of the game so by end of season you would expect that player to be one of the best in the game if given pot and trained each week.

I also think the pot lock only favours the big teams because the smaller teams can’t do deals with there pot players for bigger deals ie 2 pot players plus cash for Messi or even 3 pot players. Some people play the game different to others but I like swapping my pot players for established players at the start so I can compete for trophy’s from the off I don’t want to wait 5 weeks to swap players or build my team for season 2 as I would like to challenge for champs league or UEFA cup by then so think it restricts us from doing that.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Karma points for the lower rated teams is a good thing, Real Madrid won't deal with Exeter city, Exeter can't get the players, leaves the game, team doesn't get filled. Probably agree on the high 10s, but don't agree it takes away from scouts, as you don't find players like this, maybe scouts should be better when they suggest a player, you scout the team and the recommendation is awful.

Agree maybe it should be more expensive, but it does take a long time to build up karma players, and in established teams, these karma players won't play first team as they aren't good enough.

It definitely benefits the little or bad teams in a game.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Duplicate named karma players should definitely not be aloud.

I've seen two Vinicius Juniors in 120, and I created another Bergkamp without knowing Phil had done so.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:42 pm 
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I like Karma players, but I would limit the ability to make them to once per team per season. Maybe twice/season at a push

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Reading through the other comments. Here's my comments on some of those comments.

1. No duplicates is a good idea. Think this is a must.

2. Maybe have Karma players be awarded the same score for untrainable stats. What I mean is have them add up to 26. So two 9s and an 8. The player chooses or its random either would work. That way you can still get a great player but not to great.

3. Make it slightly more expensive, not to dear but maybe 600ish?

4. These changes must be for next game. Can't bring them into 129 now as some have taken advantage while others waited.

5. Scouting concerns should be another thread. Personally I love the way it is.

6. Pot lock needs discussed on another thread, I'm not a fan but not discussing it here.

7. One per season sounds a great idea. Really like that one.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:29 am 
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I like the karma players, being small side it helps as I am kind of playing 2 out of the 3 I made,
Who cares about the names they are called, it’s a NAME!!!
Yes the 10s in untrainables May be to much but other stats are pretty low and judgment seems to be low also so they will
Not be as good so soon. I think more the big teams don’t like karma players

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:58 pm 
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I like the idea, but I think they should cost a minimum of 500 karma each. I also 2nd what somebody said about limiting to 1 or 2 creations a season.

The name duplication is a bit annoying though. I think they should just be a generic name of Bens choosing. I don't like 4 L Messis in the game as that mucks up SPS, and no disrespect but some of the names chosen in 120 so far are awful :lol:

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:19 am 
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Thanks everyone for your input.

I won't go into too much detail about what I think about them yet as that often seems to stop further discussions, and I don't want to do that.

What I will say is:

Duplicate name - should this apply to the master files? Should managers be able to use names like D Beckham because there is a D Beckham in the masters files, even though there is no D Beckham in the game in question? Or should it just be a case if there is already a D Beckham in the game, then the name shouldn't be allowed?

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Name duplications in the game I'd only worry about. I would allow legends from previous games to be made.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:20 pm 
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muscles4851 wrote:
Name duplications in the game I'd only worry about. I would allow legends from previous games to be made.


Think I agree with this, so for example when creating a player you cant have two active real life footballers in the same game. But should be allowed to create retired legends from real-life football to the game.

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